thoughts which just now came back to me

[johncomic]

Please read this. It outlines something I recall being taught in Sunday school more than once growing up. It was commonly heard among Evangelicals and Fundamentalists, and it’s sutff that I had trouble with as I got older, but I think there are important things in here for an “outsider” to be aware of.

Firstly, they say facts are what matter. And the Bible is facts. Dig where it says “We know this is true because God's Word says so. A person may or may not believe this, but it is still true. God’s facts are always true.” Therefore, your arguments against what this book says, because you don’t believe in its divine origin, are immediately dismissed by these people. These facts are not to be debated. Did you catch the part about one-third down where it said:

God said it!

I believe it!

That settles it!

I couldn’t tell you how many times I heard that as a kid... and it never sat well with me.

Secondly [and more disturbingly for me], the implications of this facts-faith-feelings paradigm, relegating feelings to the position of least importance -- the implications don’t consciously register with most of the Fundamentalists I dealt with, but they were clear to me. If the facts [of the Bible] are more important than your feelings, then this means that if the Bible tells you to do something that feels wrong to you, that you find disturbing or upsetting -- you do it anyway. You cannot trust your conscience to be your guide.

This means that you cannot appeal to these people’s emotions, or conscience, or sense of morality or justice -- because they are prepared to dismiss all of those, except where those align with The Book. They are also prepared to dismiss any arguments based on contrary factual data.

You cannot reason with people who think like this. [Perhaps you have already noticed that in your dealings with them...]

Comments

No reason at all

[alisonebruce.livejournal.com]

You cannot reason with people who think like this. [Perhaps you have already noticed that in your dealings with them...]

In the words of Bart Simpson, "D'uh!"

However, that has never stopped me. I've read enough of the Bible to have come across it's inconsistencies. Even if God said it = it's true, The Bible is the interpretation of God by many authors. And then is interpreted again by translators, preachers and lay readers. If you think that any book has only one way of understanding it, you've never taken High School English.

I will argue. It can be fun and it has the side benefit of getting blackballed by door to door evangelists.

[ginsu.livejournal.com]

This means that you cannot appeal to these people’s emotions, or conscience, or sense of morality or justice -- because they are prepared to dismiss all of those, except where those align with The Book. They are also prepared to dismiss any arguments based on contrary factual data.

I'm sorry to say that's generally true of many people, on many topics, not just religious ones.

I recently fell into difficulties with family members for this reason. My family's not all that religious, but they're as prone to easy interpretations or explanations as anybody else, and often those turn out to be just flat-out wrong.

The most common form this takes, in my experience, is finding a shallow resemblance between X and Y and using your rule of thumb for X to try to figure out Y. The shallower the resemblance, the worse the outcome you get.

[sboyko.livejournal.com]

It has taken me decades to realize that it is pointless to argue with religious people. Once they accept that the Bible is incontrovertible fact, we disagree and there is no point in discussing it.

Live and let live.

[johncomic.livejournal.com]

Why does it take us so long to learn that, Steve?

[sboyko.livejournal.com]

For me I think it's because I can't believe that they accept the Bible as fact. I feel if I could just convince them to look at it with a critical eye... but that won't happen from outside. That kind of examination has to start from within.